Episode 102: Cheryl Zonkowski
Cheryl Zonkowski is a performance nutritionist who helps individuals achieve their goals with nutrition. In this episode, Kenny and Cheryl discuss dieting, health, and common misconceptions surrounding eating fads and trends.
Transcription
Kenny: Alright. Hey thanks for joining us today. Kenny Porter here. KP's BlackBox. I'm excited to have a new friend and well I say friend there's a love-hate relationship that I have with this guest. Her name is Cheryl Zonkowski. She is a dietician, a performance dietitian. We’re going to find out what that is in just a few minutes but before we get into talking with Cheryl today I want to give a shout out to our nation's space program. NASA. Tomorrow hopefully or at the time we're shooting this video podcast we're about to put two more men in orbit and that's really exciting and fun. Cheryl, I'm gonna try out for space force. I don't know if I told you that off camera or not.
Cheryl: You did not.
Kenny: Yeah, that's why I hired you as a nutritionist. To get my body ready.
Cheryl: Alright
Kenny: [coughs] Total bullshit.
Cheryl: [laughing] We’ve got some work to do.
Kenny: Oh man, I just got slammed right at the beginning. Can we cut? We're gonna start over. Just kidding. We let everything go, radical transparency. Radical truth. Alright, so, anyways NASA. Elon Musk, good luck. SpaceX. Let's hope we get them into space and get them home safely. That's really exciting for our country. So, just.. We'll start there. How about the space program have you ever done anything for astronauts? Probably? Maybe? No?
Cheryl: Existing astronauts, no, but gentlemen who are in training yes.
Kenny: Really? So, what do space aliens and astronauts eat when, when they're in outer space?
Cheryl: Well, I haven't had any conversation with space aliens, to my knowledge.
Kenny: Okay, well there's three back there.
Cheryl: okay
Kenny: We will talk to them afterwards.
Cheryl: Sounds good.
Kenny: So, well astronauts they—I guess there's a different way you prepare meals. There's a different diet in space than there is.
Cheryl: Right. The whole—the whole gravity piece so yes. The freeze-dried food. Things that are easily accessible, similar to the concept of MREs but different consistency. Not adding water. Not re-heating.
Kenny: Wow. And you've done that. You've taught with some previous—
Cheryl: Some gentlemen who were in training for the program.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: Yes.
Kenny: That’s very cool. We'll come back to that in a little while. Well, let me officially welcome our guest Cheryl Zonkowski to our show today. Thank you so much for being here. And in true transparency, Cheryl is trying to help me improve my body as a 50 year old and she was referred to me from one of my clients and great friends. Shoutout to Lou out there, one of our special warriors, in the world. So, yeah, thanks a lot. I'm gonna get you for referring Cheryl to me. But no, it's actually been good. I was telling you off-camera that it was really surprising to me that when we got our first meals from your catering firm, catering company, the portions that I was able to eat— I was like ‘holy cow, Cheryl expects me to eat all this food?’ I'm trying to improve my fitness and maybe lose some weight. Nine pounds. I've lost so far in about 30 days.
Cheryl: Nice.
Kenny: So thank you. Kathleen thanks you.
Cheryl: That’s all you.
Kenny: For me I was pleasantly surprised that, you know, in preparing these meals that there was so much food to consume. I was telling ya off-camera ‘I was like a lot of times I can't finish my meal’. So we’ll come back to that in a few minutes and we'll talk about the carb to vegetable to protein and I'll share on your your website your take on that as a professional. Take me back a little bit if I can to the beginning of your career what led you into this field? Because looking at your bio you’re—you've got a psychology background you've got a science background, you've got a nutrition background, you've worked with our nation's top warriors and Special Warfare which is really cool. So shout out to those guys and thank you for serving those guys well. Those men and women in uniform. So give me a little background how you got into this industry of nutrition.
Cheryl: Chance? Happenstance? I don't really know what you want to call it. I was originally pre-med two years into college and I was working as a supervisor for intramural fields. Grew up playing sports. Loved sports. Watch sports. Grew up in the Northeast. Big football fans in my family. And I was down at the University of Florida working in the intramural sports and having a conversation with one of our athletic trainers who was at the field that night, in case of injury, something along those lines and they happen to mention, ‘did you know that there is a dietitian that works for our athletic association?’ and I said ‘seriously? someone who works with athletes and food?’ I was like those are my two favorite things sports and food, what could be better? And I looked her up and got a meeting with her and for my junior year of college I said “I want to volunteer with you,” and by the end of my junior year we were having my evaluation and she said, “Well what do you want to do when you grow up? and I said, “I want to be you.” And four years later, she actually retired and the school called me and I went back and that's how I became Florida's Director of Sports Nutrition.
Kenny: Wow. Okay. Yeah, so what years was that?
Cheryl: I started as their director in 2005.
Kenny: Wow. What, were you like 16 then?
Cheryl: Thank you. Look at you being sweet.
Kenny: Brownie points there. That's so I can get some extra oatmeal in my meal later. So, University of Florida was that during the days of Tim Tebow or?
Cheryl: It was. I would like to think that some of what they were eating contributed to some of those victories. It was the Tim Tebow, the back-to-back basketball championships, we had some SEC and NCAA swimming and diving, gymnastics. It was a solid run.
Kenny: You heard it here, Cheryl Zonkowski, she brought the University of Florida onto the map.
Cheryl: That's a lie. But…
Kenny: Okay
Cheryl: I would like to think that…
Kenny: Fact check me guys.
Cheryl: ..they were fueled well for their performance.
Kenny: Yeah, Urban Meyers was like, “Hey, get this girl in the field, feed these guys well.” Right? So, did you work with a football program or did you work with all the programs?
Cheryl: So, as the director I oversaw all of the programs but I had we had a staff at Florida. Florida's a very well resourced University, so, I had a coordinator and she and I split the sports at the time and then we had three graduate assistants and about ten undergraduate volunteers running the sports nutrition program.
Kenny: That's awesome and you did that for five years?
Cheryl: Five to six years.
Kenny: And then left from there where did you go?
Cheryl: So, then I went to Naval Special Warfare over in San Diego in January of ’11.
Kenny: San Diego, beautiful, beautiful place.
Cheryl: That was gorgeous
Kenny: Yeah. That was really tough duty, huh?
Cheryl: It was, it was hard. I mean Florida to San Diego, I went from the beach life to the beach life.
Kenny: So what's it like going from working with collegiate athletes to these alp—mainly alpha males you know? Studs of the universe. Is there any correlation or is there any? What’s—what's the same? What's similar? What's different?
Cheryl: You would be surprised at the similarities when it comes to mindsets and the way that they carry themselves. I refer to the fishbowl concept. In college athletics the coaching staffs, the athletes, depending on what sport, the funding etc. they were the biggest fish in their bowl at that point in time. So the some of the egos and mindsets were very much the same. Not to say that everyone has an ego necessarily, but, there wasn't the stark contrast that some people assume that there would be.
Kenny: There’s no egos at Naval Special Warfare.
Cheryl: No, none.
Kenny: Not at all. Those guys are
Cheryl: A bunch of sweethearts. Teddy bears.
Kenny: yeah. So and that’s true.
Cheryl: And there actually are a very great number of teddy bears; that I work with.
Kenny: Yeah. Lou is a teddy bear.
Cheryl: Absolutely.
Kenny: Yeah, big teddy bear but.
Cheryl: They have—they have the ability to flip the switch.
Kenny: Yeah.
Cheryl: And that's part of how and why they’re recruited and the way that they do what they do.
Kenny: Right, right. I was gonna say you just don't piss the papa bear off or mama bear and you'll be fine.
Cheryl: They get extra oatmeal. Always extra oatmeal.
Kenny: So the oatmeal, I was telling you again off that, that's one of my favorite things in what you've prepared; you have this this peanut butter oatmeal concoction that is like my favorite thing to eat. It's the joy of my day when I see that I've got that prepared. So, thank you, but tell me a little bit about that in terms of how you prepare meals for these extraordinary athletes to special warfare soldiers and sailors. Any Marines? You work with any Marines by chance?
Cheryl: There were some that came through. They have temporary duties.
Kenny: Those were the best.
Cheryl: I don't play favorites. I can’t.
Kenny: Yeah I will say those are the best. Best fraternity in the world. Noah, sorry, there’s the Army. And then, those who can't make it into the Marines, there’s the Army. So that goes out for my son too. There you go Izzy. So when we're thinking about these these meals and how they're prepared. Ian, if you can, put up on the screen—I'd like to talk to Cheryl about, you know, we were talking off-camera about some people refer to it as ‘portion control.’ You don't like to think of it that way. So help me understand the way you would define portion control.
Cheryl: So I like to think of myself as a teacher, a sharer of knowledge, based on what the scientific evidence says. My goal is to work myself out of a job, to actually help people re-acclimate to their hunger and satiety cues and be able to hear what their body is saying and
choose whether or not they decide to listen. I mean if you want some ice cream at that moment
Kenny: Chunky monkey
Cheryl: it's not necessarily a bad idea to have some chunky monkey ice cream but should all meals every meal be chunky monkey ice cream? And that goes back to the concept of fueling.
Kenny: Well I told you off-camera I wanted to put a picture up today and I didn't get it to Zack in time but have a picture of chunky monkey and in relation to your carb, protein, vegetable. My website. I'm gonna be a nutritionist too. But it's all gonna be based around chunky monkey; that you get your walnuts, you get your bananas, you get your carbs, you get your chocolate
Cheryl: mm-hmm
Kenny: so my diet portion is gonna be chunky monkey. How much do you want to eat? half a pint? whole pint? a bite? Probably not the way we want to feed our bodies though, right? So we'll go back to your expertise. I'm just kidding. I probably shouldn’t…
Cheryl: No, that's okay.
Kenny: shouldn’t do that.
Cheryl: I was gonna say we should have the cameras follow you around for those first couple of days to see how well fueled you are and what your performance; mental and physical, looks like.
Kenny: Yeah if I would have, you know—I could have done a big shout out for you today and ‘look at me 30 days ago and look at me now’, yeah no seriously it's I—I have not like overexerted myself in exercise and Ian's proof of that my son-in-law behind the camera over there but still have lost weight but been satisfied. I haven't had a day where I’ve been like ‘oh my god why am I eating this way? I'm hungry or I'm hangry.’ That just hasn't happened for me. So that's really cool and how you know—so what's the science behind that? How can you take somebody, like me, who's an addict as it relates to chunky monkey and I love ice cream. I love sweets. But the way you put together that that meal plan; I didn't have those crazy cravings. I do have to admit maybe day one, maybe day two, it was a little strange. Excuse me, but I didn't have these massive cravings. So what’s the science behind that?
Cheryl: So, blood sugar regulation, is the premise of kind of keeping your energy levels nice and stable and steady throughout the day. Basically a boring roller coaster, if you will. Not a lot of ups, not a lot of downs, just kind of tracking. To do that pairing macronutrients together is kind of the magic in that puzzle.
Kenny: Macronutrients. So Mac, so I think macroeconomics.
Cheryl: Okay.
Kenny: A little different so macro, micro. What are macronutrients?
Cheryl: Macronutrients are the main contributors to what your body breaks down and is able to turn into energy every day. So we're talking about proteins; rule of thumb kind of anything that is an animal or is from an animal. Carbohydrates anything that came from the ground or grew at one point in time no matter how doctored by man and then fats. Which I kind of refer to as garnishes but basically anything that you marinate your food in, top your food with, or add to your food to make it taste a little better.
Kenny: Where does chunky-monkey fall in that?
Cheryl: We're gonna go with carb. Even though, I acknowledge your breakdown.
Kenny: There are some walnuts in there and there are some bananas
Cheryl: Yes, I like your thought process.
Kenny: Ben and Jerrys is really..
Cheryl: You’ve learned something. I’m impressed not going to lie.
Kenny: You can read their ingredients. They’re all healthy.
Cheryl: Yeah they are in there.
Kenny: But it's just the combination, I guess, of those that become
Cheryl: The pairing is a little lopsided to the carbohydrate.
Kenny: Ahh, the pairing.
Cheryl: Yes.
Kenny: So in your screen here, and Ian if you can pull that up again, that's a good segue into pairing. There's a photo here on your website of—you’ve got carb, protein, vegetables. And you break it up 20% carb, 30% protein, 50% vegetables and you're using this fist analogy.
Cheryl: Mhm, so every individual—if you're trying to go back—so the entire premise of these plates, we kind of alluded to it before is, consuming enough food to make you satisfied. And for the number of hours is up to the individual. If you like the 3 square meal plan then you get 4 fist allocations per meal. If you prefer the grazer 6 you know meals a day you get 2 fists per eating opportunity. And for those who are doing kind of the intermittent fasting thing where they're only eating twice a day in a smaller window then you get 6 fist allocations for your two meals but the percentages would break down the same.
Kenny: So Ian, pull this up on the screen while we're talking. If you can. So in kind of the plate allocation here, this is a lot like investments where you're allocating you know maybe a portion of your portfolio to equities or stocks, a portion to bonds, maybe another portion to non-correlated. I'm trying to show off now that I know.
Cheryl: Well that's fine because I've no idea what you're talking about so I'm sitting here smiling and nodding.
Kenny: That’s okay. That’s the same thing I’m doing with food. I'm like ‘can I eat that? Can I eat that? And where's the chunky monkey at on here?’ So, you know, going through these um these different images here. There's this half vegetable - and you're saying 50% vegetables 30% protein—so are you saying, if you want more vegetables. Maybe in a setting when you're eating a meal if you say ‘okay, I want two servings of vegetables.’ What do I have to give up on my plate analogy here or my diversification of?
Cheryl: So the reason that there are so many plates is because there's a spectrum of recommendations. So when people come and work with me, I have to collect data on them. Basically each individual is the expert on themselves. I just happen to be potentially super food geek and when they tell me about their job requirements, their activity levels, their medical history those kinds of things, then we start with which plate is most appropriate to them. Based on who they are, what they do, and then what they want to achieve fitness wise.
Kenny: So if you have somebody has a sedentary lifestyle like, Noah. Im just kidding Noah. Who, well, let's just say someone who doesn't exercise. Probably more like me. I'm getting these looks behind the camera over there. So someone who doesn’t exercise, what should their diet rule-of-thumb consist of?
Cheryl: So, the plate where you talked about maybe the one 25% carbs
Kenny: Okay
Cheryl: meaning starches and sugars with the 50%—so the vegetables are actually the fiber contributor, so that determines how quickly those sugars get absorbed and how long they last as a fuel source and then that 25% protein plate. The more active that you are; so if you are in a profession like construction where you're doing a lot of manual labor during the day the carbohydrate sugar starch part of the plate grows. Because the harder that you are working, sweating, higher heart rate, the more carbohydrates you tend to be burning. Verses the more sedentary you are the more fats you tend to be burning.
Kenny: So a guy like me, before I met you I was probably 255. You know now I'm down in the two 40s. Which is awesome. And that person at that weight of 255, rule of thumb, what should the calorie content be or calorie amount, does that matter? The amount of calories that they’re taking in?
Cheryl: Well it does matter and those are the things that I take into account. I have found with re-acclimating people to their hunger and satiety cues, and you've seen this on the meal plans that I've shared with you, all of the numbers are present but the goal isn't to get people to weigh, measure, count anything necessarily because that's not sustainable for most people's lifestyles. Most people want to be able to eat, feel great, look amazing naked but not think about it at all.
Kenny: Look amazing naked. Ian you catch that? Still—he perked up on that.
Cheryl: That's what I hear, ‘I want to look great naked.’ ‘Okay. Let’s work on that.’
Kenny: That's what all of those special warfare guys say when they come in, right? First rule of thumb, ‘we want to look great naked.’ Right. They do a lot of their missions naked. That's what I hear.
Cheryl: Well it’s dark so you know, you can’t really..
Kenny: That’s what Lou was telling me. So you have to fact-check Lou on that.
Cheryl: I'll refer back.
Kenny: Okay. I'm gonna be in so much trouble after this right? So you know talking to that level and those folks that you work with that are in different occupations, burn calories at different levels each day. That's something that the individual should really pay attention to then right? Is what their occupation is and then that will correlate with their their portion management on their plate?
Cheryl: Yes.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: Now if they are well in tuned with their hunger and satiety cues their bodies tell them that. When there's a day that they're out running around, you know, long ruck training session, really long workout, whatever it may be, a couple of hours after that, their body's gonna say, ‘hey I'm hungry. I may need a little bit more fuel than I usually do.’ But like most of us they finish their workouts, shower, change, and they go into meetings for endless numbers of hours. So they’re forced to obviously focus on what's important. The details of the meeting, listening to whose talking, more cognitive functioning and even if their body is telling them that they're hungry they don't have access to food. So they then wait till the end of the day. Which most of us are guilty of the same thing and then they do what I call ‘back loading’. They just, ‘give me everything I can get my hands on because I haven't eaten anything all day’ and at that point your body's craving carbs.
Kenny: Let me have a pint of chunky monkey
Cheryl: Yes, so that's what you grab first.
Kenny: So what happens when I do that? I—I fall off the train. I relapse. I go have a half pint of chunky monkey because my gut as now telling me ‘you know you can't eat a whole pint any more’ and now I’ve—I failed my mission.
Cheryl: mm-hmm
Kenny: I’ve got to start over again. How do you coach people through that? When they do trip up? Or they—they mess up the meal strategy that you've implemented for them or that you've suggested to them. How do you encourage them to get get back on the train? What’s?
Cheryl: Honestly it's the, one of the hardest things for people to do. It's not a, it's not a math problem. It's not, ‘well, I ate this addition so I need to subtract this.’ It's a ‘hey, you enjoyed your ice cream. Next morning have your breakfast. Move on. Erase it from your memory.’ Don’t—you don't need like the little guilty devil on your shoulder kind of a thing. Just let it go and go on about your normal fueling routine because again you get up that morning. You feel like you were bad last night so all you have is a cup of coffee. Well what happens an hour later? Now you're back in that same boat that you were last night. ‘I'm craving sugar.’
Kenny: Yeah
Cheryl: So what are you gonna grab? You know, whatever is quick.
Kenny: Is there a point where a person, I mean psychologically you have to be pretty—and some of these folks in that NSDW, NSD? NSW that's w world. I don't know where the d came from. What are you laughing at? So, the nsw world these are guys are amazing at being able to get back on track. They're you know high achievers. But take someone like myself who's kind of been out of the game for a long time. They fall off the track. They have that sugar craving again or that chunky monkey laps. You can tell what's on my mind today, man. They fall off that train and they do mess up or they do, you know, ‘cheat’ on their plan that they've designed. Are there any things you can share with the audience to say ‘here's how you can get your mind right. Here's some maybe mental exercises that you can do or things that you can do to put yourself back in that proper mindset to eat well again.’ Any thoughts there?
Cheryl: A lot of people aren't about patience. Neither are the jensen nsw. Everybody wants that magic pill, the quick fix. A lot of times when you don't have time to eat or intentionally aren't eating, people go to caffeine and that caffeine can dull those cues of ‘I am hungry’. So it's that combination of drink sixteen to twenty ounces of water before you go grab that cup of coffee. Do a check with yourself. It's just like your car, doing all systems check. ‘Am I hungry right now? Am I irritable right now?’ You know all those kinds of things. If you're hungry, eat something. Don't just grab a cup of coffee because it's quick and convenient. But that requires planning and preparedness and that's a lot of what I work with these guys. ‘What do you have in your pockets? What do you have in your backpack? what do you have in your, you know, your cage down in the lockers for you to eat if nothing is accessible? Don't just you know, go run to the beer mess or the snack stand and grab a handful of candies or you know bag of chips. Have something, like, whether it's almonds or cashews or some kind of you know pack with them. Be prepared.
Kenny: You know that makes a good point. I can think about you saying that and I was thinking about myself and you know what you'd set up for Kathleen, my wife and I. When we were starting this process out, what really made it easy for me is not only did you give us some structure in designing those those meals for us, but you contract with a caterer
Cheryl: mm-hmm
Kenny: to bring those meals out to us on Sundays and Wednesdays, I believe it is. And it made—it we did that for 30 days every meal. And it was a little expensive but not crazy expense. I’ll—you can talk to Cheryl about that. It wasn't as expensive as I thought. When I went back and looked at my budget and I went back and looked at and this is before the whole COVID crisis when we could go out to eat.
Cheryl: right
Kenny: And I feel like this is confessional a little bit today, with my priest over here. But you know we had a habit of going out to eat probably four times a week, if not more. And with these guys here in the office I'd go to lunch every day, Monday through Friday. And what that planning and strategy of planning these meals out and making this investment in, you know, 30 days of my health. It really helped me become more disciplined just by having this mindset of knowing, ‘hey, these meals are showing up on Sunday. They're showing up on Wednesday and I can't let this stuff go to waste and I can't go off track.’ So that was really great. Do you do that even in the community where, you know, that I guess like with the NSW folks and with your other clients outside of that. Do you suggest doing a meal plan where somebody delivers food to you like that, to get you on track, is that part of the the process?
Cheryl: I prefer, the option for food to be shown to individuals. Sometimes, I try to do it in my office but the applied learning curve isn't quite the same. When I was in athletics we had training tables. So the athletes were building their own plates, but those pictures were above all of the places that they would go and portion for themselves and staff was always present. With NSW they have a couple of dining facilities work—same thing. The educational materials are up the guys may have met with me already—or girls and they're building their plates and someone's available for Q&A a lot of the times when they're eating. With individuals I don’t necessarily have that luxury. I think that's where most learning occurs. Learning is visual. I mean one you want to eat with your eyes in the grocery store looking at restaurant menus but the same is true on your plate if you have those plates appearing and they're already pre balanced for you you're learning subconsciously, you know, ‘I eat this. I feel great. I want to keep eating like this.’ So you're but your body is being trained that that's what ‘right’ looks like.
Kenny: Yeah. I was just having this thought while you're talking through that in this training process that the question I want to ask is who's easier to work with male or females?
Cheryl: Completely depends.
Kenny: Really.
Cheryl: Yes. State of motivation. So, back to that psychology piece that you mentioned. I would have people come in my office all the time and say ‘I want to have this time’ or ‘lift this weight’ or you know ‘shoot this much better’ or ‘mentally be more focused between 2:00 and 4:00 in the afternoon where I kind of get brain fog.’ They would have all these goals and then we'd have conversations and I would hear responses like ‘I can’t.’ ‘I can’t.’ ‘I won’t.’ ‘I can’t.’ So their state of motivation for change was very low. But I would, I would give them all of the materials and the education and and as a provider that’s the best that you can do. Everybody's going to take that information and do what what they're ready to do at that point in time. That was something that was hard in the beginning, especially with collegiate athletes. If they weren't ready, they weren't doing it, I saw it as a self failure. And it's not a failure on anybody's part. But people have to be ready. They have to want to do it for the right reasons.
Kenny: So the reason I asked that question, Cheryl. Is when we started this process and I started dropping the weight. And it seemed like there was just a lot of water weight like the sodium retention that I was having was starting to go first and Kat said, ‘you know, you make me sick’. she might have said some other words in there to, but, it was you—can lose weight so fast and I think that's a common thread with ladies when these, you know, if they're doing something with her spouse and you know I'm 255 and I dropped 5 pounds and she's thin as a rail already but has this image, right? And it's harder for her to lose the weight where she wants to lose it or to trim up where she wants to trim up and so what's the phenomenon behind that between the male and female species?
Cheryl: Well you hit on a couple of cylinders there. The first one is, the farther you are from your goal regardless male or female, the easier things come off in the beginning. Versus the closer that you are to your optimal, already, the longer and slower things tend to change.
Kenny: You shouldn't have told me that. So I can blow up to like 300 pounds and then brag about how much weight I’ve lost.
Cheryl: I mean depending on who you talk to. That happens to people a lot. If you're far from what your body would like to be naturally, it's easier to get some of that initial
Kenny: yeah
Cheryl: excess off but the closer that you get the slower then it comes. So there's that point. The other point is it depends on how far off the the path of right people were to begin with. If they were eating pretty balanced then it's more, you brought up calories earlier. A lot of times people have this mental concept of 'I must eat less to weigh less, look less,’ whatever it may be, ‘have less fat’ and that’s not necessarily the case. And this is just as true with males as it is with women. I've had this conversation. If you want to put on muscle but lean out, you need to eat. Even if the plates initially look like more, and it sounds so counterintuitive, you need to eat more to weigh less or to burn fat more effectively and sometimes that mental crossing, that bridge is the hardest part of the fight.
Kenny: So that brings me to a transition and where I get to pick on my guys over here. So, Zack, over here our sound guy. He's in to fitness. He likes working out and there were a few weeks ago that I almost had to put him in the sleeper and choke him out and practice some of my old skills because he was getting hangry with me. He was doing—why are you peeking over the monitor over there Zach? I’m telling on you.
Zach: it’s those skills
Kenny: Its skill. Yeah. So he was doing kind of this modified keto thing. One of those fad diets and I'm not hating on keto. You can help educate us with that here in a few minutes. But he was he was really irritable and he was grumpy but what we found out after he started sharing with us what was going on he was carb depleting. he was cutting his carbs out. And so he was getting a little grumpy in the office and we had to send him home. That's a true story.
Zach: To the doctor.
Kenny: Yeah - to the what?
Zach: I had strep throat.
Kenny: You did not have strep throat. His—his you know what hurt. His throat hurt. Yeah, so what, sorry Cheryl, just play with us. Just go along with it.
Cheryl: You're good
Kenny: We'll have you sign a disclosure later.
Cheryl: Worked in a male-dominated environment for 15 years. I'm good.
Kenny: Those NSW guys they don't say stuff like that. They're clean. So what happens in these fad diets? You know you get on the train, you lose a bunch of weight. Or you hit a fitness goal and then all of a sudden you’re—you're back to ground zero again and have start over. What—what’s your opinion on all the different fad diets out there from the keto to the Palm Beach to the Atkins?
Cheryl: So you actually alluded to this a little bit when you said the first day or two that you started
Kenny: Yeah
Cheryl: you were having some cravings. Well when you consume carbs, whether it’s starches or sugars, your body elicits a response that makes it release serotonin and if you’re unfamiliar, serotonin is what gives you that feeling of calm. Whether you want to call it like ‘the post Thanksgiving fat and happy feeling’ just comfort.
Kenny: Yeah
Cheryl: so carbohydrates comforting. If you are over consuming them relative to your activity level and have to dial back, that's kind of where the cravings, hangry, those kinds of things originate chemically
Kenny: yeah
Cheryl: to start with.
Kenny: Interesting.
Cheryl: unfortunately the first sometimes week to two weeks of re-remembering what right looks like you just kind of have to battle through them. Because sometimes if you give in and over indulge like we talked about you just feel that guilt the next morning and you kind of start to rinse and repeat again. I am actually not a hater of diets. whether it's you know trends and things like that. I am familiar with some colleagues that are. But I believe that the most important thing is meeting a client where they are and if someone comes in and says ‘this is where I am, this is what I want to do’ and that's where their motivation for change is, I will start with them there. And then kind of again educate like ‘hey, your activity level is here, we may need to do some of this.’
Kenny: Key factor I think I just heard you say is their motivation for change.
Cheryl: Correct
Kenny: So you're trying to work off of what’s—what's your motivating factor? What's the thing that drives you to even want to have a conversation with me about your eating habits, diet?
Cheryl: Correct.
Kenny: So would you put that at the top of the list? There's got to be motive or motivation for change.
Cheryl: Absolutely.
Kenny: Yeah. Reminds me of that book, Who Moved My Cheese? Mine is who moved my chunky monkey? So in this environment where we were talking about Zack, over here, and he was kind of having that crash. He had been eating mainly protein for a number of days and he was getting what I've always referred to as the workout flu.
Cheryl: mm-hmm
Kenny: Where he had we were like ‘this dude's got COVID.’ You know he’s—we're gonna send him to the doctor and make sure he's not ill and infecting us all. I love teasing these guys. But it ended up he was just, that, you didn't really have strep did you Zach?
Zach: The doctor said I did.
Kenny: You did. So we're gonna have to have him sign a HIPAA form and then I can release his medical information.
Zach: But I’m actually still doing keto to.
Kenny: You are still doing keto.
Zach: Thirty something days in yeah.
Kenny: Yeah, you need to talk to Cheryl afterwards here. I'm sorry Cheryl.
Cheryl: That’s okay.
Kenny: How’s that worked out for you?
Cheryl: If I may on that one? One of the other things that when people come in and want to talk about specific diets. I ask a series of questions to try to figure out exactly how much about that do you know and understand? Keto is a very popular concept in term right now but the actual ability to get into ketosis requires a number of factors. So you were talking about eating a lot of meat. Well, depending on what kind of meat it was—its—keto has to do with the fat content of your diet not protein. So just consuming a lot of proteins and not eating any carbs isn't actually a ketogenic diet. So, it's again that educational component, like ‘hey, where are you? what do you know?’ ‘I can help you do this.’ ‘Are you aware that these are the actual components that are required to execute that if that's the genre that you want to hang out in for your lifestyle for a while.
Kenny: So just, I can remember years ago, when I was doing this fitness competition that I was 18 years old and I had—my trainer had me go through this—he called it the glycogen burn. And it was ten days of skinless, boneless chicken breast and egg whites. My mom back then was ready to kill me because I was going through a couple dozen eggs each day. And you know the BJ's wholesale club back then they would sell these big bags of boneless, skinless chicken breasts and all I would do is nuke it in the microwave and eat this—these egg whites. Noah, you tried that for a little while didn't you? And it was horrible and I went through that workout flu or that just feeling terrible. And so what's happening to my body? I didn’t really know the science behind it. I was just following the rules. What are we doing any damage to our organs when we do it that strict? So like is the kidney like with the, I think the creatine and those type buildups. What happens to your body when you’re—when you're doing things that radically?
Cheryl: We actually—you brought this up a little bit when I said macros before we came
Kenny: yeah
Cheryl: and went on and referencing micronutrients; vitamins, minerals, electrolytes. A lot of times people get hangry because they're dehydrated. So, when you're not eating enough in general, you may not be consuming enough fluid. Which has to do with how your muscles, joints, tendons, brain function and all of those kinds of things in addition to that electrolytes. So your cells can't function without sodium and potassium. A lot of times those nutrients are coming from the foods that you're eating, so if your diet is super super restricted and limited, you can be cutting yourself short on the micronutrient side of the house that helps your body convert macros from food into calories and energy and protein building blocks and things like that. so a few days not a big deal as far as taxing on your organs. I mean your body is very, very intelligent. It's going to keep you alive but things are definitely not optimal. I mean, I bet on day two or three of that if you sat down to take a test, a test that you had taken before, with information that you know, you would probably not do as well because you're mentally distracted or fatigued or something along those lines. It doesn't mean you don't know the information. It just means that your—your body's more worried about keeping yourself upright, awake in that chair than it is about finding the knowledge that you need to complete the task at hand.
Kenny: You know I was sayin to you earlier that I read and I don't know who to credit for this quote, but you would alluded it too early in our podcast. That you know, people have this image and ‘how do they look in front of the mirror’. How do they look in from the mirror naked, I think you said. But, I read where ’80% of how you look is what you put in your body. What you feed it. 90% of how you feel is what you put in your body and what you feed it. I don't know that that's scientific or if it's just you know an interesting quote. What would you say to that quote? What would you say to hearing someone say that? Is there some science behind that?
Cheryl: There's definitely some data behind that. I think, the percentages are probably a little ballooned if you will.
Kenny: Really. Ballooned?
Cheryl: Yeah I think they're probably just round numbers. You know what I mean. There's inflation with everything to make it sound a little bit better, a little bit sexier. I definitely believe that 80% of the way that you feel, perform, think, again seventy-nine point nine, eighty-two whatever percent you want to call it has to do with what you put in your body and it's not just food. I talked about hydration a minute ago, that, the same. I mean cognition is really hard with a dehydrated body. You know running stairs or doing a workout, really difficult to do. I mean the first thing that you would fall out from a workout from is gonna be dehydration. it has more to do with the fluid than it does to do with your energy levels.
Kenny: That’s interesting, you know, we were talking about Navy Navy Special Warfare and a family member who's going through some training right now with the army. One of their tactics versus making them wet and cold, is starving them and then having a high calorie content. So, there's one part of their training where it's estimated that they're burning 20,000 calories a day and in taking about 2,500 calories and then they're depriving them of sleep. They're getting plenty of hydration. They don't want them to stroke out. But they're taking sleep and food away and forcing a high, high activity level and the first thing that goes is their their thinking. Their cognitive capability. And what they're trying to instill in these guys, is being able to train under those conditions. So, that if they operate it’s that— one article I read said it's the closest thing they can get to what we sometimes refer to as the ‘fog of war’. That if you can, you know, starve them, starve the mind. Lower the cognitive capability. Which is what you're referring to here is that what you’re putting your body when you're feeling that brain fog and you're feeling it’s probably just means you that you need to hydrate or feed your bodies some nutrient. The mac—macronutrients, did I get that right? So those things that you do to your body. Is there tips that you can give us in terms of how we should listen to our body? If I if I feel anxious or hyper is there's some food that I can eat to maybe bring that into check? But if I feel lethargic or like I'm crashing can you give me some thoughts or education there?
Cheryl: So I talked about listening to your hunger and satiety cues. The more—
Kenny: What’s that word again?
Cheryl: Satiety. Feeling satisfied.
Kenny: Oh. Feeling. Ah. My knew vocab word today.
Cheryl: There we go. So the more dialed in you are to those things, the more self-aware you can become with other things and again I'm just the dietitian. The food lady. When I work with individuals, I typically tell them of 100% percent of the puzzle, sleep is probably about 60% of that argument for optimization.
Kenny: Wow.
Cheryl: In your deeper phases of sleep your body is releasing the highest concentration of recovery hormones, regeneration for all of your muscles, organs, you know, cognitive functioning. All of those things are happening at night, in your deeper phases of sleep. So if your sleep is shallow or alcohol induced or medical required it's a shallow sleep and you're not hitting those deeper phases. So you're kind of shorting yourself a little bit
Kenny: Alcohol induced I—I’ve noticed today I'm the only one who's been partaking.
Cheryl: I had some.
Kenny: You did? I missed that.
Cheryl: I did.
Kenny: So sleep, alcohol, crazy night of partying, and I need to get back into my, my routine again. The sleep makes up 60%. How does alcohol affect the body and what what's your recommendations and I know these are general recommendations so you're not giving specific advice to anybody today. Don't act without talking to your nutritionist personally. But alcohol content. Where does it fall on a scale of acceptable to bad boy for you?
Cheryl: So let's let's work backwards
Kenny: Okay
Cheryl: If your head is hitting the pillow at 11:00 pm you shouldn't put anything into your body that has calories after 9:00 pm. Give or take. Sleepy time teas, anything that's not caffeinated or that you're not adding sugar to is completely fine. And again, two hours is a rough estimate we're talking general here.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: The reason for that is anytime you put something with macronutrients into your body, for your body to break it down and turn it into energy to use later, it’s generating heat. It's called the thermic effect of food. Well, if your body’s generating heat and to get into your deeper phases of sleep your core temperature wants to go down, you're introducing a counterbalance. So, you want to be able to have your body get into the cooler core temp, deeper phases of sleep, earlier on. So you want that two hour ish window between eating and when your head hits the pillow. As far as alcohol is concerned. That portion of your plate that is carbs in the form of sugars and starches, for females if they wanted to swap out that part of the plate for a serving of an alcoholic beverage, for females again adjusted it for portion sizes, is one fist. So one alcoholic beverage for the ladies, which is a one and a half ounce pour of any sort of liquor. Excuse me. Twelve ounces of beer six, ounces of wine. For men, again, typically larger stature anatomically. They get two servings of alcohol for that portion of the plate and that is carbs in the form of sugars and starches. Still though, two ish hours before or greater before your head hits the pillow.
Kenny: Does that include passing out?
Cheryl: When its a cheat or a treat, meaning more than one for the ladies, more than two for the gentlemen, you're gonna have a harder time falling asleep. Even though you had two hours before your head hit the pillow, it takes longer for your body to process out alcohol than it does most macro nutrients.
Kenny: Yeah.
Cheryl: Cause your liver has to work on it. When your liver is trying to filter something out, it's still generating that heat longer into the night.
Kenny: But the liver is evil and it must be punished.
Cheryl: What do you mean the liver is evil?
Kenny: You’ve never heard that?
Cheryl: Yes.
Kenny: Okay, so, yeah. Just kidding. We need that liver.
Cheryl: So if the livers filtering still, generating heat longer into the night, less lower core temp. More tossing and turning, less deeper phases of sleep, and a lot of people they either drink due to mental needing comfort or physical pain relief. And after a while twos okay four is better. So years and years of very shallow sleep is gonna result in your body's metabolism slowing over time. Not getting the hormones that you need and that can lead to medical related issues and hormone dysregulation.
Kenny: Gees. Hormones.
Cheryl: I'm just the bearer of good news. Everybody just loves to have me around.
Kenny: No it's good. I mean it's great information and I'm learning a ton so.
Cheryl: Which is why you drink earlier in the day.
Kenny: Yeah I got that early. Out of the way. That's awesome. I guess that the part I have to work on is what I do two hours before bedtime so. And Zach, remember that when you're having your wild weekend. You need two hours before you pass out or blackout. I think you call them blackouts. Right? God, I love that guy. He's a stud by the way. He can do.
Zach: I’m going to put a microphone over here.
Kenny: Yeah, you should. Because I would love to hear your feedback on some of this. And Zach needs a lot of help. So, I'm actually going to refer him to you and that he should have a conversation with you off-camera about his eating habits because it could be critical to his employment.
Cheryl: okay
Kenny: That if he comes in with that hangry attitude again. And I don't want to be in prison so you know. [Mike Tyson audio clip] Yeah tell us Mike. So Thank You Zach for putting that on there today. That’s, I was just waiting for a moment when I could use it. Kathleen's calling me right now, she's probably wanting to know how our interview is going.
Cheryl: How am I doing?
Kenny: Awesome. It’s great. I'm learning the ton. I think we're gonna get a lot out of this so. If we can go now to kind of how exercise plays into this eating right. So we got these macronutrients, we’re dealing with these micronutrients and sleep and then you know partying with the alcohol. If, if I'm a fit person and let's say, I'm working out five times a week 30 minutes or more or some higher fitness. And there's some things you’ve done in your life I want to talk to you about before I let you go today. How does that change my calorie intake? So how should I change my eating habits if I’m, you know, doing a one day workout or two a day workout? You know 30 minutes to an hour depending on I guess what I'm doing weight training, running, aerobic, anaerobic? How does it change my eating profile?
Cheryl: So, we can reference those plates again.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: We talked about the 25% carbs, 50% fiber, 25% protein, and we didn't even get to the the fat servings that correspond to that, but,
Kenny: Thats my favorite.
Cheryl: they're included there too. If after a workout you're going to have a meal for recovery those portions then shift. And it becomes a third of the plate all the way around, basically increasing the size of the carbohydrates to help replenish the carbohydrates that your body just burned during that workout. I think I referred earlier to when you're exercising, your body likes carbs at moderate to high intensity.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: Versus at rest your body prefers fats, you're always burning both, but the ratio at the point in time is dictated by intensity.
Kenny: So if I can throw in something there. That there's the guys in the industry that are buddies of mine who have fitness drinks or energy drinks. You and I talked about this when I hired you to help me. And you know, I like an occasional energy drink and we were talking about the the sugar versus no sugar.
Cheryl: mm-hmm
Kenny: Expand on that for me. Help folks understand how energy drinks can affect your blood sugar and your-how you metabolize things.
Cheryl: Absolutely, so energy drinks in and of themself is a misnomer. Especially in today's day and age where things are low - no calories. Energy means fuel, you know, fuel means calories. So when companies are marketing energy drinks they're actually just talking about caffeine and stimulants enhanced beverages. Not actual macronutrients that are giving your body fuel, meaning energy. So that, I mean, that's a whole rabbit hole of a conversation right there.
Kenny: Yeah, I was going to say I would come up a whole podcast just talking about those.
Cheryl: Absolutely.
Kenny: All the drinks that are on the market and from—from weed to Bang. Right, so.
Cheryl: All the things.
Kenny: CBD, I mean. So what what happens when we take, intake, these energy drinks? Especially the ones that have no calories, no sugar, no carbs. I get a little sketched out, so, ‘I'm like well what kind of chemical is this and what’s it doing to my body?’ So help me understand that.
Cheryl: So, typically it's the caffeine or the herbal version of caffeine. There are multiple or herbal versions of caffeine that they put in those drinks and they don't actually disclose how many milligrams of total caffeine are in them. When you ingest caffeine it acts as a stimulant. Stimulating your cardiovascular system. When you stimulate your cardiovascular system, you go into your body and start to pull and release carbohydrates, so that you have energy to fuel—that’s kind of how stimulants work a little bit and they enhance blood flow in general. So energy drinks are basically mobilizing your body's already existing fuel sources by up regulating your cardiovascular system. So basically tricking your body into thinking that you're putting in fuel when basically you're just going into the vaults and pulling out what you have.
Kenny: That’s interesting. So what happens to guys, I mean, I know some dudes that are drinking five and six of these drinks a day. I'm not talking about 8 ounces. I’m talking about 12, you know, that it's almost like the old beers we used to drink the big, 44 monsters, there's these massive cans of of stimulant. Have you seen any studies or anything on the long-term effects of putting this stuff in your body?
Cheryl: I mean energy drinks have been around for, a while, but I don't know that they've been around long enough for very well-documented research to exist. So I mean my short answer would be, ‘no, I haven't seen any long-term studies.’ That doesn't mean that they're not out there.
Kenny: Well you’re—you went to University of Florida, right?
Cheryl: I did.
Kenny: So your alma mater is like the founding platform of almost, would you consider Gatorade as an energy drink?
Cheryl: A sports drink.
Kenny: It’s a sports drink.
Cheryl: So, and right, so now we're talking about the misnomer of energy drinks versus sports or performance which actually has calories in it.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: Gatorade. Carbohydrates. High in sugar.
Kenny: Electrolytes.
Cheryl: Electrolytes. Correct. Fluid to keep you performing in the hot humid Florida environment
Kenny: Gatorade is thirst aid.
Cheryl: Fueling the Gators. Yes.
Kenny: That deep down body thirst. There you go Gatorade. Send me a check. Just kidding. So, what's the difference between like a sports drink and there are some guys out there, and some ladies, who will pick on sugary sports drinks like it's bad, and maybe it is, I don’t—I don't know, versus the energy drink? So can you help our listeners understand the difference between those two?
Cheryl: Absolutely. So with energy drinks I was talking about the misnomer of just a lot of caffeine, artificial or natural sweeteners, not a lot of calories therefore no real fueling energy from macro nutrients. Whereas sports drinks, or performance drinks, have carbohydrates in them because at moderate to high intensity your body's primary fuel choice is carbohydrates. So that beverage is not only giving you fluid to keep you hydrated but calories from carbohydrates, actual energy, calories that you're ingesting during that exercise to be able to continue to perform at that higher level of intensity. They also put electrolytes in there for self functioning and all of those other things.
Kenny: So, you know, on the market today is, obviously, Gatorade and they've changed their formula around over the years. Is that more of a marketing thing that they've done? Where they’ve, you know, cut the sugar or have they, you know, maybe thrown some protein in it? Is that really just coca-cola doing its job of great marketing?
Cheryl: So, any—any sports drink, so and there's dozens of them, you know Powerade and Endurox, hundreds of them out there. Gatorades not the only one. But originally marketing tools were ‘Play sports. Drink this beverage.’
Kenny: Yeah.
Cheryl: Well we as Americans were like ‘well some is good, more is better’ and instead of drinking water cuz nobody, you know, ‘water's boring.’ ‘It doesn't taste like anything.’ ‘I don't want this.’ They were then drinking sports beverages to stay hydrated. Well again sugar. Calories. By themselves, if you're not working out and you're just drinking it to stay hydrated, is resulting in that blood sugar dysregulation and if you're consuming extra carbs whether it's from a sports beverage or chunky-monkey ice cream and you're not exercising where do those calories go? The wrong, the wrong place. So.
Kenny: They go to my biceps -
Cheryl: You're a lucky man. You've got great genetics.
Kenny: But they tend to flop a little.
Cheryl: So in response to the general populations desire to consume things that don’t taste like water. Sports beverage companies have changed their formularies to now have, like, ‘this one is only for hydration. So all that it has in it is fluid and a little bit of electrolytes, not a lot of calories.’ ‘Here are some that have half the amount of calories from carbohydrates so if you do, you know, a three to five mile light jog with the dog, this one is for you.’ Versus ‘if you’re going out and getting after it with a weighted ruck, for five miles, on the soft sand, in the beach. Here's the full carbohydrate, plus fluid, plus electrolyte formula for you.’
Kenny: So your recommendation then and how you would put these energy drinks or sports performance drinks back into your diet. What’s—what's the recommendations, the general recommendations, that you give to your your client?
Cheryl: It's dictated by your exercise.
Kenny: Okay
Cheryl: Level, intensity, duration.
Kenny: yeah, so if you're running your dog on the beach, you can have a sports drink or maybe if you have a lab, you need, you need an energy drink.
Cheryl: And personal preference. I personally like to eat my calories. So I'll get back from a beach run and do just water, but that's when I'll have, you know, twice as many sweet potatoes.
Kenny: Yeah.
Cheryl: So it depends on the person.
Kenny: So you're a beach person?
Cheryl: Very much.
Kenny: And you, I think in your bio, you told me you have a lab.
Cheryl: I do. She's gonna be two in August.
Kenny: What’s her name?
Cheryl: Cora.
Kenny: I couldn't pronounce it. I was looking at it like.
Cheryl: She's a little red lab. So, Cora is heart in French.
Kenny: Oh cool.
Cheryl: She has my heart.
Kenny: So it's often said that pets are, emulate, or are a picture of their owner. So you have a lab. Guess what my dog is. I have two dogs but there's a dog that emulates Kathleen and there's a dog emulates Kenny.
Cheryl: Okay.
Kenny: What do you think my dog is?
Cheryl: A bulldog.
Kenny: You're close. Marines. That's pretty close, he kinda is in the bull, he's an English Mastiff.
Cheryl: Nice.
Kenny: Yeah he's a big slothy, lazy
Cheryl: Okay I could—yep
Cheryl: You know the only thing he'll get up for is to pee, poop, and eat which is pretty — and I'll do a podcast to, so then we have a German Shepherd. And right now Betsy is amazing but Kathleen hates her.
Cheryl: Oh.
Kenny: Nah, hates a strong word. All those dog lovers would be attacking Kathleen. She's a little hyper probably like the lab.
Cheryl: How old?
Kenny: She will be two very soon. I think August.
Cheryl: Still a puppy.
Kenny: Yeah and still a puppy. And we have a Xteam guy who's her trainer and it we actually just got her back cause she needed some remedial training she was being a little,
Cheryl: A little extra.
Kenny: Behavior disorder. Yeah. And sent her out to the farm to get some, some remedial training. We probably are the ones that actually need to go and get the training but. So, yeah, the dog yet your dog is something that helps keep you fit? I'm sure.
Cheryl: She keeps me accountable, yeah. When there's more than a few hours of meal plan writing or sedentary behavior, she's all about it. Like, ‘mom lets go.’
Kenny: Do you write a meal plan for your lab too?
Cheryl: No, but she eats like a queen.
Kenny: Oh yeah.
Cheryl: Oh yeah.
Kenny: Kathleen used to do this diet for our dogs. It was whole chicken, bones included, non-cooked.
Cheryl: Oh, wow. Nice.
Kenny: And then we would order this, this bag of food that had sweet potatoes,—it was a lot like the diet that you feed me. It was dog food.
Cheryl: Whoah.
Kenny: Ba-dum-tss. Yeah [DJ air horn sound] so, yeah. I love that. But no, these dogs ate it great, and it just, it got really just over the top. Because we were like chopping up this chicken and mixing it in with this prepared vegetable plate and there for a while Brady ate better than I did. Thanks to Kat. Love you babe.
Cheryl: Well, were you in the dog house?
Kenny: I stay in the dog house always. Like that phone call, it's probably. I'm not sure what I did but I’m sorry honey. But you know again when I—I look at my pet and just thinking back and bringing that back to our conversation today. When Brady was eating that way and eating these whole foods and he's on a good dog food now. My vets gonna call me after watching this podcast and chastise me. But he was eating these whole foods, you know, raw chicken and his coat was amazing.
Cheryl: Shiny.
Kenny: Yeah, his coat was shiny and his fitness was at a high level. Now Brady is for a mastiff, he's old. He’s eight years old. So getting close to end of life for him. Which is sad but he's a good boy. But he's 205, somewhere around there, big, big dog, but he's tend to have changed his diet. I've just noticed that as we were talking today and I was thinking about these questions for you, that man, just it kind of made me feel a little guilty that maybe we need to change our diet with Brady again and maybe get him back to that old eating habit, which was the better eating habit of having those whole foods and that that's a lot of what I've learned from you and the in the meal preparation and the meal strategy. I hate to call it meal plan because it sounds so like you got this routine you've got to do it.
Cheryl: Right
Kenny: But it's really just having better habits, right? And you know it's garbage in, garbage out, right? So you put crap in your body and it's gonna perform crappy. So, we're getting close on time today to kind of close things out, but you know, if you had some major pointers or takeaways that you could give folks as little things that they could do to improve their eating strategy, eating habits, exercise. What are maybe some of your top three? Top six things that you would tell folks to do as a good start to improving their lifestyle?
Cheryl: The first one may sound silly but I would say take a day or two and either in the note section of your phone or a notebook somewhere actually jot down everything that you eat and drink or supplements that you take in one day. Most people aren't aware of what they’re actually doing and most of the time, if you just look at what your results are, people are smart enough to figure out, I could change X number of things on this sheet of paper all by myself without any help. So it's just bringing about a better sense of awareness. The second one would be drink more fluids. Most people just, they don't pay enough attention to hydration.
Kenny: Johnny Walker.. Blue Moon..
Cheryl: Water would be great.
Kenny: So drink more fluids but in all seriousness the alcohol how much should a person generally, monitor their alcohol intake?
Cheryl: So if we're talking about the evidence that's out there, in the guidelines. It’s one to two a day for gents. One for the ladies. And I talked about how to modify your plate to make all that makes sense, and no it doesn't mean ‘I didn’t drink my 12 Monday through Saturday, so, Sunday I can have 14.’ Remember, I've worked with guys for a long time. I know how that math goes. That's not how balance happens. But that's kind of what the guidance is as of today and I think you pointed this out earlier with the red wine, there have been research benefits to consuming alcohol from cardiovascular health and wellness standpoint and other things. So you know cost-benefit, but as we mentioned, moderation.
Kenny: Moderation. Yeah.
Cheryl: And a little bit of time before bed to let your body recover.
Kenny: Damn, that moderation.
Cheryl: Yeah so boring.
Kenny: Right. But if you if you want a long healthy life
Cheryl: Thats where it’s at.
Kenny: Then moderation is key. So jotting down what you, what you intake. You—you suggest doing that for a couple days. Increasing your hydration and really what you're talking about there's your H2O. Your water.
Cheryl: Yep.
Kenny: And anything else? So what else matters?
Cheryl: The third one would be, are you getting a little bit of protein and a little bit of healthy fat with all of your meals? Or just one of them with your snacks? Most of the time snacks tend to be very carbohydrate dominant. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you pair it with at least one of the other two to help slow and regulate how your body absorbs it and chooses to use it as a fuel source.
Kenny: Got you. We've got about five minutes. Any more than those top three? Anything else?
Cheryl: Those are the big ones.
Kenny: Okay. So let's let's talk about Cheryl personally for a few minutes. If that's cool with you.
Cheryl: Okay. Now I’m terrified.
Kenny: All right now. Okay. Now you're gonna drink.
Cheryl: [laughs] Now I’m going to drink.
Kenny: What—what I found really interesting in your bio was you've ran multiple marathons.
Cheryl: mm-hmm
Kenny: Tell me about that.
Cheryl: Grew up
Kenny: That’s insane to me. I've never done that.
Cheryl: If I had to pick a genre. I was a soccer player growing up.
Kenny: Ian! Yeah Ian was a collegiate soccer player.
Cheryl: Yes. Nice, I was a sweeper.
Ian: Forward.
Cheryl: I like to take you out before you get to my goalie.
Ian: I like to break your ankles.
Kenny: I was a janitor.
Cheryl: Yeah, so, a lot of running in soccer.
Kenny: That sucks
Cheryl: Grew up in Jersey. Went to Florida, an out of state school. So tuition, a lil bit higher for an out-of-stater. So, worked a couple jobs and I could afford some running shoes. Run was a cheap habit, at the time, and I could still get the endorphins, the feel goods, from the exercise.
Kenny: Man, that has never kicked in for me with run— I had to do it the Marine Corps and I'll do it because I know it's good for my heart. I don't get that runner's high.
Cheryl: But do you get it from lifting?
Kenny: Uh yeah. It must be the Viking blood in me, right?
Cheryl: Everybody’s—you got to find your genre.
Kenny: Yeah. Chunky monkey. I get some real—
Cheryl: It’s the serotonin.
Kenny: Yeah.
Cheryl: It’s serotonin. We talked about that.
Kenny: Okay, so yeah, this is about you. So running. Marathons, I don’t get but okay I'm tracking with you.
Cheryl: Well I had to pick a goal. Yeah cuz I’m competitive.
Kenny: Okay.
Cheryl: I mean, I work in sports, that's kind of my thing.
Kenny: So you wanna have a chunky monkey eating contest with me one day?
Cheryl: I might give you a run for your money.
Kenny: Okay, alright.
Cheryl: Actually, if we could
Kenny: Okay I’ll have you back on the show, we will do that.
Cheryl: We could do one chunky monkey and one pizza. Pizza I’ll eat ya under the table.
Kenny: Oh, that's challenge accepted. Pungo Pizza, shout out to the locals. I mean,
Cheryl: Nice.
Kenny: Pungo Pizza and ice cream.
Cheryl: Yes.
Kenny: That, that’s I'm gonna like I'm gonna be a nutritionist. Im gonna compete with you and we're gonna see who wins in that, so,
Cheryl: Okay
Kenny: I'll give Ice cream diet and pizza diet. So, you might be a client of mine.
Cheryl: There you go. I need to learn from the best.
Kenny: Right. Obviously. So yeah so you're doing these marathons how many marathons have you done?
Cheryl: Probably six or seven
Kenny: What?
Cheryl: Yeah.
Kenny: Geez, do you have any lined up?
Cheryl: I do not. So when I moved to Virginia, uh, I haven’t—I've run one. I ran one with my best friend last year at the Shamrock. she had not run a marathon she wanted a buddy.
Kenny: She finish?
Cheryl: Yes.
Kenny: Man, that's amazing.
Cheryl: 5:15 she beat—her she wanted to do 5:30 and we beat it by 15 minutes so.
Kenny: Yeah I mean anything under six hours for your first one is like.
Cheryl: Yeah it was huge. It was awesome.
Kenny: Good for her.
Cheryl: Uhm the fifty mile.
Kenny: What’s her name?
Cheryl: Katie. Katie Wilson.
Kenny: Katie, congratulations that's great.
Cheryl: She's my best friend since college.
Kenny: Awesome.
Cheryl: It’s been a minute. Yeah. Then I got roped into the ultra. That was my, my first C.O. when I was out at..
Kenny: And an ultra is what?
Cheryl: It was a 50-miler trail race. Pacific Crest Trail, it was brutal.
Kenny: Don’t you guys just feel like complete sloths right now?
Crew: mmhmm
Kenny: Six merit. Noah what are you?
Noah: I worked out this morning.
Kenny: You did? Okay good for you okay.
Ian: It is 11:16.
Kenny: Okay. Yeah. What's that? Oh yeah.
Cheryl: You are getting yelled at.
Kenny: Yeah, we got to get you out of here. Alright so you like to surf and paddleboard.
Cheryl: Yes, sir.
Kenny: That's pretty awesome.
Cheryl: I’m a beach girl.
Kenny: That's cool. What, uh, what's your your your preference? Are you like what is it left side of the lip.
Cheryl: I am goofy, yes.
Kenny: Goofy footed, yeah.
Cheryl: I’m goofy.
Kenny: Where's your favorite place to surf?
Cheryl: Sunset Cliffs, San Diego.
Kenny: Nice. Have you been down, what's the longest left line in the world? Down in Costa Rica?
Cheryl: A surf trip is on my bucket list. I have never been on one and I've been surfing for probably like eight or nine years.
Kenny: Kat and I were in Costa Rica last year and we were going to try to make that trip and I'm not a surfer but I appreciate the sport and it's beautiful. I would have probably like sponge board or body boarded or you know did something stupid out there on the waves.
Cheryl: As long as you are having a good time doing it.
Kenny: Yeah. I’d have been like a porpoise, you know, and the shark would have come and got me. But that has like one of the longest, I guess, left lines in the world and we were gonna go out and we couldn't get to it cuz it was so crazy windy that day and it just didn't work out. But yeah that’s, uh, that's a place that I hear all my surfer buddies say you got to go try in Costa Rica. So I usually like to ask folks what are you reading now? What’s your your top read? What, anything outside of that academic worlds or any reading that you would suggest the folks right now to take a look at? Any nutrition? Have you written a book yet?
Cheryl: I have not.
Kenny: Write your book.
Cheryl: I’m—I'm gonna do a cookbook first.
Kenny: Really?
Cheryl: Yeah but there'll be a preface in the beginning that gives some guidance.
Kenny: You got to put your peanut butter oatmeal in there. That is awesome.
Cheryl: The peanut butter, it will be in there.
Kenny: That’s very cool. Well look, we gotta get—You’ve got an appointment to go to and I went way over on time with you today. So, we got four seconds left to get off this.
Cheryl: Thats alright it was fun.
Kenny: Yeah I really enjoyed it. Thank you for helping me get my, my nutritional life in order. It's been great. I'm glad Lou referred us and I'd love to have you back on one day and when you get that cookbook out, please let us know. We'll help you promote it and put it out there on the show.
Cheryl: Appreciate it. Thank you.
Kenny: And what we'll do on the front side of the show is, I'll tell folks how to reach you, if that's okay?
Cheryl: Yeah, absolutely.
Kenny: And any specific clientele that you like to specialize with or like work with? They can be slothful like me?
Cheryl: Everybody is a puzzle and that's what keeps it interesting.
Kenny: Fine. Okay. Well great Cheryl, thank you so much, I had a blast doing this with you today and look forward to having you back on in the future.
Cheryl: Thanks, my pleasure.
Kenny: All right see you around.